Welcome to JobBoardz.com!
FAQFAQ    SearchSearch      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

Big purge at ASU

 
Goto page Previous  1, 2
   Job Finder (Home) -> Scientist/Geologist/Chemist RSS
Next:  dual careers  
Author Message
Phil Scott

External


Since: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 14



(Msg. 16) Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 2:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Big purge at ASU [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: sci>research>careers (more info?)

--
Phil Scott
Ideas are bullet proof.
"Straydog" wrote in message

>
> Today's WSJ, front page.
>
> A guy (a head of their cancer center) removed from control
> of his institute and 30 of his scientists let go as the axe
> fell. The guy had something like 25-30 years there, $1.5 mil
> in NIH money, another $1 mil in royalty income, well known,
> etc.
>
> What triggered all this? Guess what? A new administrator
> came on board and "re-engineered" ASU into an even
> biggerer/expanderer institution. Our original hero lost a
> major NIH grant, plus got in a squabble with another faculty
> member who he said filed improper patent applications, and
> with the new regime on board (the new regime was quick to
> set up the new ASU uber alles policy, added buildings,
> programs, departments, brought in new people including
> George Poste [retired from SKF?] to head up another
> institute), and part of the new regime included very very
> aggressive moneyharvesting (as if this, now, is the only
> reason to live) and our original hero did not "play ball"
> with this. Lawsuits filed, our original hero's budget
> accounts all frozen, institute taken away from him (but he
> still has his tenured position and pay and office), and the
> university started the smear machine. They set up a safety
> violation audit and totaled up hundreds of safety violations
> (what a joke, where I was, we had probably 30 violations per
> room/lab, etc, and nothing much happened [not only that, but
> if you did want to do anything about it, it had to come out
> of direct costs of your grant, not the dean's money]). They
> also had an external review of the guys programs (another
> joke) and the guy complained because the guy who was in
> charge of the review was the new institute director who was
> under the thumb of the new big kahuna (Dr. Crow, new
> president of ASU), and the guy in charge of the review
> brought in--guess what--all of HIS old buddies who would
> likely nod-off on anything that the big kahuna wanted them
> to nod-off on (I've seen how these things work several times
> in my career, they can be apple-polish or they can be the
> hatchet men).
>
> And, they had a bar graph to show recent NIH budgets falling
> flat or headed down slightly for the last couple years;
> really bad news for guys at the bottom of the "hot topics"
> (read: funded) pool. And, the article said that applications
> are up yet more, and funding success rates down even more.
>
> And, so here it is, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls,
> the "new world order" (yes, they used that term in the
> article to describe the new ASU pres philosophy) is
> _moneyharvesting_ and also the latest buzzwords, buzzthink,
> and buzzprograms.
>
> And, I can talk about how a lot of this began some ten years
> ago at UMAB. They did the same thing with Bob Gallo: made a
> whole building, gave it to him with a small budget, and told
> him to fill it up with grant-swinging science stars (should
> really be called fundraiser stars, not science stars). And,
> oh yes, the guy that came to ASU was previously at Columbia
> and pulled the same "magic wand" (big growth, increase size,
> increase budgets, increase institutes, make big castles in
> the sky and even alliances between the castles [the
> uberbureaucratization of the multiversity]) and so, its the
> old game: BoR sees something neato,
> then they gotta have the latest fad, too. Ten years ago I
> gave an invited seminar at Mt. Saini SoM, NYC, and they
> showed me a "research tower" being built accross the street.
> 25 stories or something like that, fill them up with MDs and
> PhDs writing grant proposals. And, how many careers are
> going on the rocks in the process? The article mentioned the
> same thing going on at Pitt. Big shift into grant swinging.
> Name of the game!


The plan no doubt driven and supported by the Bush
administration in an effort to drive US industry to regain its
leverage in world markets due to technical advance as in the
good old days.

However now we have trained our competition and they are doing
that and much better now in china, russia, and india....for
10 cents on the dollar, and in the case of china and Korea out
from under the thumb of special interests in pharma, oil and
car makers.

these are already cutting us a new one....and they are just
barely getting started, as we continue to fund them, and hire
ruthless morons to gut what do have in the name of money
harvesting etc.

One does not harvest money...on harvests production...and
gain..and progress. These types only see the money, and the
short term rip offs required to get it...from the tax payer,
clearly on govt grants..hosted by special interests often not
interested in actual progress...so its not real money that
results in the end...just funny money.... and more fraud.

Thank god I got to say my piece on these issues also 15 years
ago before congress. or I would still be stewing in the lack
of expression...I told these people in over 2 hours testimony
and examination after they asked me why I was putting my
career on the line to stay what I did.... after recovering my
breath at such insanity I told them that 'when the govt forces
its young engineers to lie and cover up, it corrupts them,
actual progress and invention cannot proceed while lying at
the same time, and that the result would be loss of national
competitiveness"... most either smirked or laughed in my face.

Some of these idiots are still laughing.... many are no
longer laughing, in a year or two few if any will be.

Having escaped the insanity of the USDOE weapons plants and
their spawn, and noticing what it did to people then, and
seeing them now.....I wouldnt have had it any other way.
These people lead the life of sludge... comfortable, secure,
well fed, nice home and car...but devoid entirely of actual
life, joy and elan... that all went as they justified why it
was necessary to become sludge.... the rest of the world sees
this.

Americans dont. the view from deep in the sludge is occluded,
one is looking only for his next worm.



Phil Scott







>
>
>
>

 >> Stay informed about: Big purge at ASU 
Back to top
Login to vote
Phil Scott

External


Since: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 14



(Msg. 17) Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 2:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Big purge at ASU [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

--
Phil Scott
Ideas are bullet proof.
"Straydog" wrote in message

>
>
> On Sat, 6 May 2006, Old Pif wrote:
>
>>
>> DGJ wrote:
>>> Straydog wrote:
>>>> Today's WSJ, front page.
>>>>
>>>> A guy (a head of their cancer center) removed from
>>>> control of his
>>>> institute and 30 of his scientists let go as the axe
>>>> fell. The guy had
>>>> something like 25-30 years there, $1.5 mil in NIH money,
>>>> another $1 mil in
>>>> royalty income, well known, etc.
>>>
>>>> (SNIP)
>>>
>>>> And, so here it is, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls,
>>>> the "new world
>>>> order" (yes, they used that term in the article to
>>>> describe the new ASU
>>>> pres philosophy) is _moneyharvesting_ and also the latest
>>>> buzzwords,
>>>> buzzthink, and buzzprograms.
>>>
>>> Art, pres's phiilosophy there is called the "New American
>>> University,"
>>> which is what Crow is building in Phoenix. Nothing similar
>>> to the New
>>> World Order. (Just an on-the-ground comment from
>>> Arizona!).
>>>
>>
>> Could you expand this a bit more? For people who are out of
>> academia
>> for some time it might be interesting.
>>
>
> It began about 10 years ago. There are at least two books
> out there on the commercialization or corporatization of the
> university. I just read part of an article on something
> related to this in the most recent BW, but it deals with
> endowments. Evidently there is so much pressure to gain
> wealth by academic institutions that a lot of them are
> plunging their endowment assets into hedge funds in the
> hopes of growing their booty. OK, nice idea or are they
> putting their rainy day money into too much risk?
>
> The "new world order" in academia also began in a small way
> maybe two or more decades back when many departments began
> incentivizing new asst prof faculty to encourage fundraising
> over research over teaching (not all that new since I
> remember complaints in the journal Science back in the '60s
> about non-grant holding faculty complaining about how grant
> swinging faculty got kisses and hugs from chairs and deans
> for swinging grants and to hell with research and teaching).
> Garfield and daSilva Price (I think) wrote a book on this,
> generally, with the title "Little Science, Big Science" and
> then a second edition "Little Science, Big Science and
> Beyond", generally about how inexpensive science was being
> replaced by grant-funded science, and forget about quality
> of science or discoveries, and concentrate on qualities such
> as: i) how many people on the team, ii) only teams can get
> anything done, and iii) how much money was in the budget,
> iv) that the money came from NIH or NSF. We never got any
> assesment of the outcome of this model except for Project
> Sunshine and Project Lookback, which had conflicting
> conclusions (i.e. there was a lot of spinoff from govt
> spending, or, conversely, a lot of govt waste with little to
> show). There were more studies like this and I remember only
> a few (also conflicting).
>
> Zip to ~1990s, and at a faculty meeting (UMAB) where a new
> president was coming, and the "new world order" came down
> from above: departments would henceforth not play a major
> role in the activities of the university, but, instead,
> "centers of excellence" would be formed (and supported
> mainly by grants and contracts, and not hard money) and
> exist for a cycle of 10-15 years, and then be disbanded and
> new "centers of excellence" come into existence.
> MicroEmpires if you will. All controlled by the
> "administrator" gods, and thus, one can be a director but no
> longer a "god" because they have to be under the thumb of a
> real "god", the ubergod administrator....you get my drift?
> And, so we are back to the old model of "the underlings do
> all the work" and the "overlings go in after the work is
> done, and appropriate the credit and trappings for that
> work." This is, essentially, the "new world order."
>
> It even applies to that model where the new kids come to the
> institution and pay four times the market price for a laptop
> computer because the institution requires it, and so they
> get the "take" for tuition, the "take" for dorm fees, the
> "cut" on the computer, and whatever else they can "stick it
> to" the student. And, another article I read about how
> commercial interests build nice "student unions" on campuses
> now that
> are essentially not much different from shopping malls out
> in real
> life, complete with highly commerciallized shops, vendors,
> service-for-fee botiques, etc.
>
> Its all about _moneyharvesting_ and forget anything else
> going on, including morals, ethics, and actual learning and
> critical thinking and expanding on one's wits.

I knew there was something behind the creation of these
idiots.... I am so glad to be side stepping that range of
loops and cluster fornications.

I talk to some of the profs on issues Ive come to understand
at beyond leading edge levels, these are not bright people as
a rule...those you see brilliance in hedge their positions and
words in order to stay employed apparently.

One needs to be entirely out of all of those loops imho.

Phil Scott

 >> Stay informed about: Big purge at ASU 
Back to top
Login to vote
Threeducks

External


Since: Aug 11, 2004
Posts: 63



(Msg. 18) Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Big purge at ASU [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Straydog wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, 7 May 2006, Threeducks wrote:
>
>> Straydog wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Today's WSJ, front page.
>>>
>>> A guy (a head of their cancer center) removed from control of his
>>> institute and 30 of his scientists let go as the axe fell. The guy
>>> had something like 25-30 years there, $1.5 mil in NIH money, another
>>> $1 mil in royalty income, well known, etc.
>>>
>>> What triggered all this? Guess what? A new administrator came on
>>> board and "re-engineered" ASU into an even biggerer/expanderer
>>> institution. Our original hero lost a major NIH grant, plus got in a
>>> squabble with another faculty member who he said filed improper
>>> patent applications, and with the new regime on board (the new regime
>>> was quick to set up the new ASU uber alles policy, added buildings,
>>> programs, departments, brought in new people including George Poste
>>> [retired from SKF?] to head up another institute), and part of the
>>> new regime included very very aggressive moneyharvesting (as if this,
>>> now, is the only reason to live) and our original hero did not "play
>>> ball" with this. Lawsuits filed, our original hero's budget accounts
>>> all frozen, institute taken away from him (but he still has his
>>> tenured position and pay and office), and the university started the
>>> smear machine. They set up a safety violation audit and totaled up
>>> hundreds of safety violations (what a joke, where I was, we had
>>> probably 30 violations per room/lab, etc, and nothing much happened
>>> [not only that, but if you did want to do anything about it, it had
>>> to come out of direct costs of your grant, not the dean's money]).
>>> They also had an external review of the guys programs (another joke)
>>> and the guy complained because the guy who was in charge of the
>>> review was the new institute director who was under the thumb of the
>>> new big kahuna (Dr. Crow, new president of ASU), and the guy in
>>> charge of the review brought in--guess what--all of HIS old buddies
>>> who would likely nod-off on anything that the big kahuna wanted them
>>> to nod-off on (I've seen how these things work several times in my
>>> career, they can be apple-polish or they can be the hatchet men).
>>>
>>> And, they had a bar graph to show recent NIH budgets falling flat or
>>> headed down slightly for the last couple years; really bad news for
>>> guys at the bottom of the "hot topics" (read: funded) pool. And, the
>>> article said that applications are up yet more, and funding success
>>> rates down even more.
>>>
>>> And, so here it is, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, the "new
>>> world order" (yes, they used that term in the article to describe the
>>> new ASU pres philosophy) is _moneyharvesting_ and also the latest
>>> buzzwords, buzzthink, and buzzprograms.
>>>
>>> And, I can talk about how a lot of this began some ten years ago at
>>> UMAB. They did the same thing with Bob Gallo: made a whole building,
>>> gave it to him with a small budget, and told him to fill it up with
>>> grant-swinging science stars (should really be called fundraiser
>>> stars, not science stars). And, oh yes, the guy that came to ASU was
>>> previously at Columbia and pulled the same "magic wand" (big growth,
>>> increase size, increase budgets, increase institutes, make big
>>> castles in the sky and even alliances between the castles [the
>>> uberbureaucratization of the multiversity]) and so, its the old game:
>>> BoR sees something neato,
>>> then they gotta have the latest fad, too. Ten years ago I gave an
>>> invited seminar at Mt. Saini SoM, NYC, and they showed me a "research
>>> tower" being built accross the street. 25 stories or something like
>>> that, fill them up with MDs and PhDs writing grant proposals. And,
>>> how many careers are going on the rocks in the process? The article
>>> mentioned the same thing going on at Pitt. Big shift into grant
>>> swinging. Name of the game!
>>
>>
>> Things have always been screwed up in the biological sciences/med
>> schools and that is primarily because if NIH money and the fact that
>> people are will to take jobs under these conditions. You won't find
>> an engineer dumb enough to take a faculty job without a 9 month
>> guaranteed salary, but plenty of bio-types would jump at the chance to
>> get paid for 3 out of 12 months.
>
>
> Can you answer a few questions for me?
> 1. At how many higher tier institutions (say the better ranked public
> and private, and that means research, not teaching) with engineering
> departments are you familiar with the "guarantees" for salary?
> 2. For all those who get tenure, are those full 9 month hard money
> salaries guaranteed 100% regardless of whether they are bringing in any
> grant-contract money?

That is the standard in ChE. I know faculty at Princeton, MIT, Cornell,
Michigan, Minnesota, etc. and that's the way it works everywhere.
Tenured faculty have a 9 month guaranteed salary on hard money. The
only salary money you need to come up with is the 3 months in the
summer. I know of some tenured faculty at these places that haven't
written a paper in 5+ years, let alone get a grant funded and they are
still getting a paycheck. I'm sorry I don't have concrete numbers, just
anecdotal evidence from my colleges at various universities. I have not
heard of anyone in ChE who had to come up with their academic year
salary out of their own grants.

> 3. What are the formulas that trade-off teaching load vs. extramural
> funding (yeah, I'd pick full time teaching for security, too, but the
> prestige ain't there, either, and the fundraisers often got better
> raises and promotions, too).

I don't know what the formulas are at the top 10 type places, but these
guys are generally teaching 1-2 classes per year. Usually just one if
they are research active. Those of us who are not at elite universities
are all teaching 3 courses per year.

>
> As one reference point I knew about, when I was an undergraduate physics
> major (Urbana-Champaign) in the mid '60s, all of my friends were EE
> undergrads and we all were often "bumming around" in the EE departments
> labs and it was common knowledge that half the department was full time
> teaching (office and no lab), and the other half was on reduced or no
> teaching (office and lab space) because they had DoD, Air Force, Navy,
> and other military grants and contracts or maybe a commercial contract.
> Oh, yes, the EE building had an antenna test pattern tower and I often
> saw it going up and down, rotating, elevating, etc., so there were
> really using that facility. The Nuclear Engineering department had its
> own low power research reactor; funded by (at that time) AEC. I got to
> see Cherenkov radiation in person.
>
> At IIT (Chicago), at that time, too, I was a part time night student,
> also visited their research institute skyscraper which, after being
> built, just
> about doubled their lab space. It was all funded on soft money grants
> and contracts, and mostly engineering research (IIT was private), and I
> knew
> that some department faculty had arrangements for space in the big
> building,
> but otherwise were full time scientists (no teaching).
>
> I also gave a seminar at Hopkins, on the main campus (not the med
> school), in an engineering department (the chair told me he was firing a
> guy who "hadn't brought in any grant money in five years," I didn't ask
> if he had tenure of any kind.)
>
> So, I'd like you to tell me if the situations you know about (and how
> many) in the "engineering racket" are much different from the "science
> racket" according to the three questions I asked above.
 >> Stay informed about: Big purge at ASU 
Back to top
Login to vote
Straydog

External


Since: Oct 11, 2005
Posts: 332



(Msg. 19) Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 1:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Big purge at ASU [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sun, 7 May 2006, Threeducks wrote:

> Straydog wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 7 May 2006, Threeducks wrote:
>>
>>> Straydog wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's WSJ, front page.
>>>>
>>>> A guy (a head of their cancer center) removed from control of his
>>>> institute and 30 of his scientists let go as the axe fell. The guy had
>>>> something like 25-30 years there, $1.5 mil in NIH money, another $1 mil
>>>> in royalty income, well known, etc.
>>>>
>>>> What triggered all this? Guess what? A new administrator came on board
>>>> and "re-engineered" ASU into an even biggerer/expanderer institution. Our
>>>> original hero lost a major NIH grant, plus got in a squabble with another
>>>> faculty member who he said filed improper patent applications, and with
>>>> the new regime on board (the new regime was quick to set up the new ASU
>>>> uber alles policy, added buildings, programs, departments, brought in new
>>>> people including George Poste [retired from SKF?] to head up another
>>>> institute), and part of the new regime included very very aggressive
>>>> moneyharvesting (as if this, now, is the only reason to live) and our
>>>> original hero did not "play ball" with this. Lawsuits filed, our original
>>>> hero's budget accounts all frozen, institute taken away from him (but he
>>>> still has his tenured position and pay and office), and the university
>>>> started the smear machine. They set up a safety violation audit and
>>>> totaled up hundreds of safety violations (what a joke, where I was, we
>>>> had probably 30 violations per room/lab, etc, and nothing much happened
>>>> [not only that, but if you did want to do anything about it, it had to
>>>> come out of direct costs of your grant, not the dean's money]). They also
>>>> had an external review of the guys programs (another joke) and the guy
>>>> complained because the guy who was in charge of the review was the new
>>>> institute director who was under the thumb of the new big kahuna (Dr.
>>>> Crow, new president of ASU), and the guy in charge of the review brought
>>>> in--guess what--all of HIS old buddies who would likely nod-off on
>>>> anything that the big kahuna wanted them to nod-off on (I've seen how
>>>> these things work several times in my career, they can be apple-polish or
>>>> they can be the hatchet men).
>>>>
>>>> And, they had a bar graph to show recent NIH budgets falling flat or
>>>> headed down slightly for the last couple years; really bad news for guys
>>>> at the bottom of the "hot topics" (read: funded) pool. And, the article
>>>> said that applications are up yet more, and funding success rates down
>>>> even more.
>>>>
>>>> And, so here it is, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, the "new world
>>>> order" (yes, they used that term in the article to describe the new ASU
>>>> pres philosophy) is _moneyharvesting_ and also the latest buzzwords,
>>>> buzzthink, and buzzprograms.
>>>>
>>>> And, I can talk about how a lot of this began some ten years ago at UMAB.
>>>> They did the same thing with Bob Gallo: made a whole building, gave it to
>>>> him with a small budget, and told him to fill it up with grant-swinging
>>>> science stars (should really be called fundraiser stars, not science
>>>> stars). And, oh yes, the guy that came to ASU was previously at Columbia
>>>> and pulled the same "magic wand" (big growth, increase size, increase
>>>> budgets, increase institutes, make big castles in the sky and even
>>>> alliances between the castles [the uberbureaucratization of the
>>>> multiversity]) and so, its the old game: BoR sees something neato,
>>>> then they gotta have the latest fad, too. Ten years ago I gave an invited
>>>> seminar at Mt. Saini SoM, NYC, and they showed me a "research tower"
>>>> being built accross the street. 25 stories or something like that, fill
>>>> them up with MDs and PhDs writing grant proposals. And, how many careers
>>>> are going on the rocks in the process? The article mentioned the same
>>>> thing going on at Pitt. Big shift into grant swinging. Name of the game!
>>>
>>>
>>> Things have always been screwed up in the biological sciences/med schools
>>> and that is primarily because if NIH money and the fact that people are
>>> will to take jobs under these conditions. You won't find an engineer dumb
>>> enough to take a faculty job without a 9 month guaranteed salary, but
>>> plenty of bio-types would jump at the chance to get paid for 3 out of 12
>>> months.
>>
>>
>> Can you answer a few questions for me?
>> 1. At how many higher tier institutions (say the better ranked public and
>> private, and that means research, not teaching) with engineering
>> departments are you familiar with the "guarantees" for salary?
>> 2. For all those who get tenure, are those full 9 month hard money salaries
>> guaranteed 100% regardless of whether they are bringing in any
>> grant-contract money?
>
> That is the standard in ChE. I know faculty at Princeton, MIT, Cornell,
> Michigan, Minnesota, etc. and that's the way it works everywhere. Tenured
> faculty have a 9 month guaranteed salary on hard money. The only salary
> money you need to come up with is the 3 months in the summer. I know of some
> tenured faculty at these places that haven't written a paper in 5+ years, let
> alone get a grant funded and they are still getting a paycheck. I'm sorry I
> don't have concrete numbers, just anecdotal evidence from my colleges at
> various universities. I have not heard of anyone in ChE who had to come up
> with their academic year salary out of their own grants.

Well, that's a good deal, then. But, then,

>> 3. What are the formulas that trade-off teaching load vs. extramural
>> funding (yeah, I'd pick full time teaching for security, too, but the
>> prestige ain't there, either, and the fundraisers often got better raises
>> and promotions, too).
>
> I don't know what the formulas are at the top 10 type places, but these guys
> are generally teaching 1-2 classes per year. Usually just one if they are
> research active. Those of us who are not at elite universities are all
> teaching 3 courses per year.

OK, but you didn't respond to the situations I outlined below: that there
are a lot of research-only faculty, too, and I'm sure they dont' get tenure and
they are always or almost always on soft money.

And, there are places where there is a formula where teaching load varies
with grant activity and back again.

===== no change to below, included for reference and context =====

>>
>> As one reference point I knew about, when I was an undergraduate physics
>> major (Urbana-Champaign) in the mid '60s, all of my friends were EE
>> undergrads and we all were often "bumming around" in the EE departments
>> labs and it was common knowledge that half the department was full time
>> teaching (office and no lab), and the other half was on reduced or no
>> teaching (office and lab space) because they had DoD, Air Force, Navy,
>> and other military grants and contracts or maybe a commercial contract. Oh,
>> yes, the EE building had an antenna test pattern tower and I often saw it
>> going up and down, rotating, elevating, etc., so there were really using
>> that facility. The Nuclear Engineering department had its own low power
>> research reactor; funded by (at that time) AEC. I got to see Cherenkov
>> radiation in person.
>>
>> At IIT (Chicago), at that time, too, I was a part time night student, also
>> visited their research institute skyscraper which, after being built, just
>> about doubled their lab space. It was all funded on soft money grants and
>> contracts, and mostly engineering research (IIT was private), and I knew
>> that some department faculty had arrangements for space in the big
>> building,
>> but otherwise were full time scientists (no teaching).
>>
>> I also gave a seminar at Hopkins, on the main campus (not the med school),
>> in an engineering department (the chair told me he was firing a guy who
>> "hadn't brought in any grant money in five years," I didn't ask if he had
>> tenure of any kind.)
>>
>> So, I'd like you to tell me if the situations you know about (and how many)
>> in the "engineering racket" are much different from the "science racket"
>> according to the three questions I asked above.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Big purge at ASU 
Back to top
Login to vote
marti285

External


Since: Apr 12, 2005
Posts: 4



(Msg. 20) Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 9:38 am
Post subject: Re: Big purge at ASU [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article ,
"Phil Scott" wrote:

> --
> Phil Scott
> Ideas are bullet proof.
> "Straydog" wrote in message
>
> >
> > Today's WSJ, front page.
> >
> > A guy (a head of their cancer center) removed from control
> > of his institute and 30 of his scientists let go as the axe
> > fell. The guy had something like 25-30 years there, $1.5 mil
> > in NIH money, another $1 mil in royalty income, well known,
> > etc.
> >
> > What triggered all this? Guess what? A new administrator
> > came on board and "re-engineered" ASU into an even
> > biggerer/expanderer institution. Our original hero lost a
> > major NIH grant, plus got in a squabble with another faculty
> > member who he said filed improper patent applications, and
> > with the new regime on board (the new regime was quick to
> > set up the new ASU uber alles policy, added buildings,
> > programs, departments, brought in new people including
> > George Poste [retired from SKF?] to head up another
> > institute), and part of the new regime included very very
> > aggressive moneyharvesting (as if this, now, is the only
> > reason to live) and our original hero did not "play ball"
> > with this. Lawsuits filed, our original hero's budget
> > accounts all frozen, institute taken away from him (but he
> > still has his tenured position and pay and office), and the
> > university started the smear machine. They set up a safety
> > violation audit and totaled up hundreds of safety violations
> > (what a joke, where I was, we had probably 30 violations per
> > room/lab, etc, and nothing much happened [not only that, but
> > if you did want to do anything about it, it had to come out
> > of direct costs of your grant, not the dean's money]). They
> > also had an external review of the guys programs (another
> > joke) and the guy complained because the guy who was in
> > charge of the review was the new institute director who was
> > under the thumb of the new big kahuna (Dr. Crow, new
> > president of ASU), and the guy in charge of the review
> > brought in--guess what--all of HIS old buddies who would
> > likely nod-off on anything that the big kahuna wanted them
> > to nod-off on (I've seen how these things work several times
> > in my career, they can be apple-polish or they can be the
> > hatchet men).
> >
> > And, they had a bar graph to show recent NIH budgets falling
> > flat or headed down slightly for the last couple years;
> > really bad news for guys at the bottom of the "hot topics"
> > (read: funded) pool. And, the article said that applications
> > are up yet more, and funding success rates down even more.
> >
> > And, so here it is, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls,
> > the "new world order" (yes, they used that term in the
> > article to describe the new ASU pres philosophy) is
> > _moneyharvesting_ and also the latest buzzwords, buzzthink,
> > and buzzprograms.
> >
> > And, I can talk about how a lot of this began some ten years
> > ago at UMAB. They did the same thing with Bob Gallo: made a
> > whole building, gave it to him with a small budget, and told
> > him to fill it up with grant-swinging science stars (should
> > really be called fundraiser stars, not science stars). And,
> > oh yes, the guy that came to ASU was previously at Columbia
> > and pulled the same "magic wand" (big growth, increase size,
> > increase budgets, increase institutes, make big castles in
> > the sky and even alliances between the castles [the
> > uberbureaucratization of the multiversity]) and so, its the
> > old game: BoR sees something neato,
> > then they gotta have the latest fad, too. Ten years ago I
> > gave an invited seminar at Mt. Saini SoM, NYC, and they
> > showed me a "research tower" being built accross the street.
> > 25 stories or something like that, fill them up with MDs and
> > PhDs writing grant proposals. And, how many careers are
> > going on the rocks in the process? The article mentioned the
> > same thing going on at Pitt. Big shift into grant swinging.
> > Name of the game!
>
>
> The plan no doubt driven and supported by the Bush
> administration in an effort to drive US industry to regain its
> leverage in world markets due to technical advance as in the
> good old days.


You can't blame Bush for this trend. Started happening well before Bush
was even governor of Texas. This is academics killing other academics.
Tenure at many medical schools requires 2 NIH R01 grants because the
deans pet projects all come from indirect. Chasing patent money also
has increased and driven the adminsitrators/regents to view future
development with the goal of increasing funds. How many institutions
have the goal of becoming considered top-5 of their peer group?

B. Martin
 >> Stay informed about: Big purge at ASU 
Back to top
Login to vote
marti285

External


Since: Apr 12, 2005
Posts: 4



(Msg. 21) Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 9:43 am
Post subject: Re: Big purge at ASU [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article ,
"DGJ" wrote:

>
> Unfortunately, there is a lot of "dead wood" in academia. People like
> President Crow will not put up with this old way of doing things. He
> carries a mighty big broom, and I am sure we'll see more housecleaning.

Dead wood based on what criteria? The definition of dead wood almost
always seems to involve the shortage of grant money. I have come across
very few academics who don't put good effort into some activity, if only
their teaching. The difficulty is that current pseudo-educational
institutions such as research universities don't view teaching as
sufficiently valuable.

Research universities have become as corrupt as Division I athletics.

B. Martin
 >> Stay informed about: Big purge at ASU 
Back to top
Login to vote
Straydog

External


Since: Oct 11, 2005
Posts: 332



(Msg. 22) Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 4:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Big purge at ASU [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Thu, 11 May 2006, marti285.DeleteThis@umn.edu wrote:

> In article ,
> "Phil Scott" wrote:
>
>> --
>> Phil Scott
>> Ideas are bullet proof.
>> "Straydog" wrote in message
>>
>>>
>>> Today's WSJ, front page.
>>>
>>> A guy (a head of their cancer center) removed from control
>>> of his institute and 30 of his scientists let go as the axe
>>> fell. The guy had something like 25-30 years there, $1.5 mil
>>> in NIH money, another $1 mil in royalty income, well known,
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> What triggered all this? Guess what? A new administrator
>>> came on board and "re-engineered" ASU into an even
>>> biggerer/expanderer institution. Our original hero lost a
>>> major NIH grant, plus got in a squabble with another faculty
>>> member who he said filed improper patent applications, and
>>> with the new regime on board (the new regime was quick to
>>> set up the new ASU uber alles policy, added buildings,
>>> programs, departments, brought in new people including
>>> George Poste [retired from SKF?] to head up another
>>> institute), and part of the new regime included very very
>>> aggressive moneyharvesting (as if this, now, is the only
>>> reason to live) and our original hero did not "play ball"
>>> with this. Lawsuits filed, our original hero's budget
>>> accounts all frozen, institute taken away from him (but he
>>> still has his tenured position and pay and office), and the
>>> university started the smear machine. They set up a safety
>>> violation audit and totaled up hundreds of safety violations
>>> (what a joke, where I was, we had probably 30 violations per
>>> room/lab, etc, and nothing much happened [not only that, but
>>> if you did want to do anything about it, it had to come out
>>> of direct costs of your grant, not the dean's money]). They
>>> also had an external review of the guys programs (another
>>> joke) and the guy complained because the guy who was in
>>> charge of the review was the new institute director who was
>>> under the thumb of the new big kahuna (Dr. Crow, new
>>> president of ASU), and the guy in charge of the review
>>> brought in--guess what--all of HIS old buddies who would
>>> likely nod-off on anything that the big kahuna wanted them
>>> to nod-off on (I've seen how these things work several times
>>> in my career, they can be apple-polish or they can be the
>>> hatchet men).
>>>
>>> And, they had a bar graph to show recent NIH budgets falling
>>> flat or headed down slightly for the last couple years;
>>> really bad news for guys at the bottom of the "hot topics"
>>> (read: funded) pool. And, the article said that applications
>>> are up yet more, and funding success rates down even more.
>>>
>>> And, so here it is, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls,
>>> the "new world order" (yes, they used that term in the
>>> article to describe the new ASU pres philosophy) is
>>> _moneyharvesting_ and also the latest buzzwords, buzzthink,
>>> and buzzprograms.
>>>
>>> And, I can talk about how a lot of this began some ten years
>>> ago at UMAB. They did the same thing with Bob Gallo: made a
>>> whole building, gave it to him with a small budget, and told
>>> him to fill it up with grant-swinging science stars (should
>>> really be called fundraiser stars, not science stars). And,
>>> oh yes, the guy that came to ASU was previously at Columbia
>>> and pulled the same "magic wand" (big growth, increase size,
>>> increase budgets, increase institutes, make big castles in
>>> the sky and even alliances between the castles [the
>>> uberbureaucratization of the multiversity]) and so, its the
>>> old game: BoR sees something neato,
>>> then they gotta have the latest fad, too. Ten years ago I
>>> gave an invited seminar at Mt. Saini SoM, NYC, and they
>>> showed me a "research tower" being built accross the street.
>>> 25 stories or something like that, fill them up with MDs and
>>> PhDs writing grant proposals. And, how many careers are
>>> going on the rocks in the process? The article mentioned the
>>> same thing going on at Pitt. Big shift into grant swinging.
>>> Name of the game!
>>
>>
>> The plan no doubt driven and supported by the Bush
>> administration in an effort to drive US industry to regain its
>> leverage in world markets due to technical advance as in the
>> good old days.
>
>
> You can't blame Bush for this trend. Started happening well before Bush
> was even governor of Texas.

At least 1-2 decades ago for the aggressive fundraising, more than that
for pure grant harvesting.

This is academics killing other academics.
> Tenure at many medical schools requires 2 NIH R01 grants

Tenure at medical schools never was very common, and I've seen many
advertisements in the periodical "Academic Physician and Scientist" for
chair positions where it was plainly written into the one paragraph advert
that the goal was to clean out the tenured faculty in the department!!!

because the
> deans pet projects all come from indirect.

Yep.

Chasing patent money also
> has increased and driven the adminsitrators/regents to view future
> development with the goal of increasing funds.

Yep.

How many institutions
> have the goal of becoming considered top-5 of their peer group?

All of them in the top 1/3 to 1/2.

> B. Martin
>
 >> Stay informed about: Big purge at ASU 
Back to top
Login to vote
Straydog

External


Since: Oct 11, 2005
Posts: 332



(Msg. 23) Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 4:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Big purge at ASU [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Thu, 11 May 2006, marti285.RemoveThis@umn.edu wrote:

> In article ,
> "DGJ" wrote:
>
>>
>> Unfortunately, there is a lot of "dead wood" in academia. People like
>> President Crow will not put up with this old way of doing things. He
>> carries a mighty big broom, and I am sure we'll see more housecleaning.
>
> Dead wood based on what criteria? The definition of dead wood almost
> always seems to involve the shortage of grant money.

And, only grant (or contract) money.

I have come across
> very few academics who don't put good effort into some activity, if only
> their teaching. The difficulty is that current pseudo-educational
> institutions such as research universities don't view teaching as
> sufficiently valuable.
>
> Research universities have become as corrupt as Division I athletics.

Academia's version of the Roman Empire.

> B. Martin
>
 >> Stay informed about: Big purge at ASU 
Back to top
Login to vote
BMJ

External


Since: Mar 05, 2004
Posts: 140



(Msg. 24) Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Big purge at ASU [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Straydog wrote:
>
> Today's WSJ, front page.
>
> A guy (a head of their cancer center) removed from control of his
> institute and 30 of his scientists let go as the axe fell. The guy had
> something like 25-30 years there, $1.5 mil in NIH money, another $1 mil
> in royalty income, well known, etc.

I know of several post-secondary institutions where stuff like this goes on.

Even at places which primarily teach, the emphasis is on maintaining
revenues, no matter what. Where I used to be, many fringe benefits
enjoyed by staff were free. Then, several years ago, somebody decided
to start charging for them.

I remember sitting in on a meeting where it was proposed to make staff
pay to use the gym facilities. The umbrage that resulted brought that
idea to a quick end. A slow process of nickel-and-diming the people who
worked there started soon after that, particularly after the place went
through a reorganization. For example, fitness assessments used to be
free but, a few years ago, any staff member who wanted one had to pay
something like $40 for it. The staff dining room was converted into a
public restaurant and every available cafeteria was rented out for
meetings and the like as often as possible. I also remember the howls
of protest when the institution started charging staff for parking.

It went without saying that the students were nickel-and-dimed for just
about everything as well.

I quit several years ago and, from what I've heard, things haven't improved.

<snip>
 >> Stay informed about: Big purge at ASU 
Back to top
Login to vote
Threeducks

External


Since: Aug 11, 2004
Posts: 63



(Msg. 25) Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 5:45 am
Post subject: Re: Big purge at ASU [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

marti285.TakeThisOut@umn.edu wrote:
> In article ,
> "DGJ" wrote:
>
>
>>Unfortunately, there is a lot of "dead wood" in academia. People like
>>President Crow will not put up with this old way of doing things. He
>>carries a mighty big broom, and I am sure we'll see more housecleaning.
>
>
> Dead wood based on what criteria? The definition of dead wood almost
> always seems to involve the shortage of grant money. I have come across
> very few academics who don't put good effort into some activity, if only
> their teaching. The difficulty is that current pseudo-educational
> institutions such as research universities don't view teaching as
> sufficiently valuable.

There is always someone who is dead wood. In a department of 15
faculty, you usually have one or two that does nothing. The question
is, do you want to punish the other 14 productive faculty to try and get
rid of the one bad apple?

>
> Research universities have become as corrupt as Division I athletics.
>
> B. Martin
 >> Stay informed about: Big purge at ASU 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
Related Topics:
polymerase chain reaction PCR - Could anyone assist me with materials for methods polymerase chain reaction PCR, I shall appreciate it. thank you.

Chemist-Rubber Products - JOB MEMO PLANT CHEMIST / PROCESS ENG-CENTRAL INDIANA Large international company manufacturer of automotive rubber molded products needs hands-on type who can liaison between lab and production and engineering. General Functions: Responsible for..

scientific career - So far, I have been in a passive mode regarding my scientific career and was going with the flow: I got a PhD because in the beginning it seemed a good thing to have and later I had no other employment options, and then I scrambled to find any employment...

My Future - Okay, In the fall I will start what will likely be a five year stint as a graduate student in the life sciences. I never thought it would be an easy path but after browsing through this newsgroup I was amazed about how overwhelming negative an opinion so...

NCSA/Visiting Research Programmer (Specializing as a Softw.. - Integrated CyberServices Directorate Innovative Systems Lab Division <font color=brown> ; ; ; </font> Visiting Research Programmer (Specializing in Software Development) The National Center for Supercomputing Appl...
   Job Finder (Home) -> Scientist/Geologist/Chemist All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada)
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You can edit your posts in this forum
You can delete your posts in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]