France just withdrew the new job law....

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006, Thomas Bartkus wrote:

> "Straydog" wrote in message
>
>>
>> Saw it on front page, today's WP, on line.
>>
>> There's a good side to that news, and a bad side to that news.
>>
>
> I presume you are talking about good & bad news for young French citizens.
>
> The good
> If you are young and employed, you can keep your job - no matter what.
>
> The bad
> If you are young and unemployed, you can't have a job - no matter what.

Yeah, more or less. However, I was under the impression that the
modification to the existing law was only for people during their first
two years of work.

> You get wonderful job security with only this minor little drawback that you
> can't actually *have* a job. Ahhh - To be French!

Probably, as I see it, the change in the law (to make people "fireable" in
their first two years) would be to create something like a new
job "underclass" more or less parallel to what has spread all across the
US in the last 1-2 decades: the rise of the "temporary worker" who is also
lower paid, little or no benefits, less job security, etc.

> Another marveleous French innovation to solve high unemployment rates -

Well, we'll have to see. If all this globalization proceeds as the "free
traders" want it, then all those big bags of money will be able to afford
the freedom and those people without any bags of money will have to go
scratch.

> If you are self employed and own your own business, you *must* sell it and
> get the hell out when you reach retirement age.

Yep. But, I'm sure there are ways around this. I'm sure the French lawyers
can put together a small "corporation" just like in Germany (Gmb) or
England (Ltd).

You are simply not
> permitted to earn a living past (62? 65?) but must sell your business (nice
> fire sale!) and take a pension.

I like pensions.

This is seen as having had your chance and
> making room for those oh so lucky French youth.

Fine, they can get a loan from a bank, even an Indian bank.

And buy out some old foggie.

Who, of course, remain
> unemployed and unemployable.

I'm glad I dont' have this problem.

> But heck! Fair is fair.
> Thomas Bartkus
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: France just withdrew the new job law.... 

Straydog dixit:

>
> Saw it on front page, today's WP, on line.
>
> There's a good side to that news, and a bad side to that news.

The good side is that De Villepin is now finished, and Sarko is slated to
be the next president.

The bad side is that the French economy will continue to be in the
shambles.

Marcos


>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: France just withdrew the new job law.... 

"Straydog" wrote in message

>
>
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2006, Thomas Bartkus wrote:
>
> > "Straydog" wrote in message
> >
> >>
> >> Saw it on front page, today's WP, on line.
> >>
> >> There's a good side to that news, and a bad side to that news.
> >>
> >
> > I presume you are talking about good & bad news for young French
citizens.
> >
> > The good
> > If you are young and employed, you can keep your job - no matter
what.
> >
> > The bad
> > If you are young and unemployed, you can't have a job - no matter
what.
>
> Yeah, more or less. However, I was under the impression that the
> modification to the existing law was only for people during their first
> two years of work.
>
> > You get wonderful job security with only this minor little drawback that
you
> > can't actually *have* a job. Ahhh - To be French!
>
> Probably, as I see it, the change in the law (to make people "fireable" in
> their first two years) would be to create something like a new
> job "underclass" more or less parallel to what has spread all across the
> US in the last 1-2 decades: the rise of the "temporary worker" who is also
> lower paid, little or no benefits, less job security, etc.

Well - Here in the USA you either have a civil service job or you have
temporary work. Outside of civil service, one can have a career in a
profession. But it is no longer possible to have a career with a company.
Nowadays all corp. entities go through a cycle that goes from
Profitability>Growth>Shrinkage>Bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is now the natural
and inevitable old age expiration of the corp. with a life expectency far
shorter than any healthy individuals working career.

As for me, I'm reconciled to it. I consider everyone to be self employed.
Notions of a formal job Vs. self employment Vs. S Corp Vs. Salary Vs. Wage
.... etc. are mere details you shift between to accomodate the winds of
change.

Pension benefits? Medical Benefits? Insurance Benefits? Vacation Benefits?
There is always a "bankruptcy" standing between you and promised "benefits".
I'll just take cash up front - thank you very much.

> > Another marveleous French innovation to solve high unemployment rates -
>
> Well, we'll have to see. If all this globalization proceeds as the "free
> traders" want it, then all those big bags of money will be able to afford
> the freedom and those people without any bags of money will have to go
> scratch.
>
> > If you are self employed and own your own business, you *must* sell it
and
> > get the hell out when you reach retirement age.
>
> Yep. But, I'm sure there are ways around this. I'm sure the French lawyers
> can put together a small "corporation" just like in Germany (Gmb) or
> England (Ltd).
>
> You are simply not
> > permitted to earn a living past (62? 65?) but must sell your business
(nice
> > fire sale!) and take a pension.
>
> I like pensions.

I'm sure you do I like em too, just like I like winning the lottery!
Unfortunately, it just ain't gonna happen.
There is only Roth IRA that I control and (maybe!) Soc. Sec. in some
penurious mutation of the present system. Like I said - I'll stick with
cash to be deposited in *my* account. Pensions that inspired me to great
efforts in my naive youth have blown away like the gold dust in "The
Treasure of the Sierra Madre" (great movie!).

> This is seen as having had your chance and
> > making room for those oh so lucky French youth.
>
> Fine, they can get a loan from a bank, even an Indian bank.
>
> And buy out some old foggie.

Good plan But what I think happens is that these small businesses get
passed down from father to son/daughter. Birth is still the key to success
in France. Not that it isn't an extraordinary advantage here
But get a loan from an Indian bank ??? What do they demand for collateral ?

And what can you buy in France with rupees?
Thomas Bartkus

> Who, of course, remain
> > unemployed and unemployable.
>
> I'm glad I dont' have this problem.
>
> > But heck! Fair is fair.
> > Thomas Bartkus
 >> Stay informed about: France just withdrew the new job law.... 

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Thomas Bartkus wrote:

> "Straydog" wrote in message
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 10 Apr 2006, Thomas Bartkus wrote:
>>
>>> "Straydog" wrote in message
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Saw it on front page, today's WP, on line.
>>>>
>>>> There's a good side to that news, and a bad side to that news.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I presume you are talking about good & bad news for young French
> citizens.
>>>
>>> The good
>>> If you are young and employed, you can keep your job - no matter
> what.
>>>
>>> The bad
>>> If you are young and unemployed, you can't have a job - no matter
> what.
>>
>> Yeah, more or less. However, I was under the impression that the
>> modification to the existing law was only for people during their first
>> two years of work.
>>
>>> You get wonderful job security with only this minor little drawback that
> you
>>> can't actually *have* a job. Ahhh - To be French!
>>
>> Probably, as I see it, the change in the law (to make people "fireable" in
>> their first two years) would be to create something like a new
>> job "underclass" more or less parallel to what has spread all across the
>> US in the last 1-2 decades: the rise of the "temporary worker" who is also
>> lower paid, little or no benefits, less job security, etc.
>
> Well - Here in the USA you either have a civil service job or you have
> temporary work.

And, one needs to realize that working for the govt does not mean you have
a (real) civil service job. They are going by the wayside, too.

Outside of civil service, one can have a career in a
> profession. But it is no longer possible to have a career with a company.
> Nowadays all corp. entities go through a cycle that goes from
> Profitability>Growth>Shrinkage>Bankruptcy.

Actually, there is another path: Profitability (permanent jobs->outsourced
jobs->offshored jobs, local plants->go extinct->re-appear elsewhere),
period. eg. Microsoft, IBM, and others

Bankruptcy is now the natural
> and inevitable old age expiration of the corp. with a life expectency far
> shorter than any healthy individuals working career.

I'll add "sell little company to big company" too.

> As for me, I'm reconciled to it. I consider everyone to be self employed.

I'd almost like to write a book on "survival for the citizen by self
employment" because that is the only alternative if you keep sending
hundreds to thousands of resumes in and never get an interview (or the
other thing: "networking" which to me, was called in the old days "putting
the word out to your friends, who passed it along to their friends, etc")

> Notions of a formal job Vs. self employment Vs. S Corp Vs. Salary Vs. Wage
> ... etc. are mere details you shift between to accomodate the winds of
> change.
>
> Pension benefits? Medical Benefits? Insurance Benefits? Vacation Benefits?
> There is always a "bankruptcy" standing between you and promised "benefits".
> I'll just take cash up front - thank you very much.

And, don't spend it all in one place, or put it all in just one bank,
either.

>>> Another marveleous French innovation to solve high unemployment rates -
>>
>> Well, we'll have to see. If all this globalization proceeds as the "free
>> traders" want it, then all those big bags of money will be able to afford
>> the freedom and those people without any bags of money will have to go
>> scratch.
>>
>>> If you are self employed and own your own business, you *must* sell it
> and
>>> get the hell out when you reach retirement age.
>>
>> Yep. But, I'm sure there are ways around this. I'm sure the French lawyers
>> can put together a small "corporation" just like in Germany (Gmb) or
>> England (Ltd).
>>
>> You are simply not
>>> permitted to earn a living past (62? 65?) but must sell your business
> (nice
>>> fire sale!) and take a pension.
>>
>> I like pensions.
>
> I'm sure you do I like em too, just like I like winning the lottery!
> Unfortunately, it just ain't gonna happen.

Well, the wife's is a state pension, and mine is from another state. I
have less fear than if its a pension with an underfunded corporation.

> There is only Roth IRA that I control

Be glad for this.

> and (maybe!) Soc. Sec. in some
> penurious mutation of the present system.

Will depend on when you plan to access SS. They are talking about problems
in 2035+, but I'm sure they are going to push back "full retirement" to
higher ages as time goes by, and give deeper cuts to those who access at
age 62, so that will save some money. Also, I think they are taking bigger
bites out of higher salary people, too. Not percentage, but they raised
the caps.

Like I said - I'll stick with
> cash to be deposited in *my* account. Pensions that inspired me to great
> efforts in my naive youth have blown away like the gold dust in "The
> Treasure of the Sierra Madre" (great movie!).

Yeah, I know what you mean.

>> This is seen as having had your chance and
>>> making room for those oh so lucky French youth.
>>
>> Fine, they can get a loan from a bank, even an Indian bank.
>>
>> And buy out some old foggie.
>
> Good plan But what I think happens is that these small businesses get
> passed down from father to son/daughter.

Yeah, but this happens here, too. I know of many cases.

Birth is still the key to success
> in France.

Hah! It is here too. If you're born in a rich family, usually the
immediate family gets inheritances. In the "rich" stories (shall I post
them again?), about 1/4 of the people who are rich now never worked for
that money. True, its often a surviving wife, so maybe that is
justifiable. Maybe sharing some family booty at death is not unjust, but
if you're born into money, usually you're going to get some.

Not that it isn't an extraordinary advantage here
> But get a loan from an Indian bank ??? What do they demand for collateral ?

Your job. (that was supposed to be a funny joke).

> And what can you buy in France with rupees?

Nobody buys anything in France with Rupees. They all buy stuff in France
with US$, just like everyone else in the world. Ask Kamal. He's so upset
that "we" print so much of this money that it inflates our currency, but
just try to get him to acknowledge that all that inflated currency is
helping drag India (or at least parts of it, the non-Dalit part) out of
poverty.

> Thomas Bartkus
 >> Stay informed about: France just withdrew the new job law.... 

"Straydog" wrote in message

>
>
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Thomas Bartkus wrote:
>
> >
> > Well - Here in the USA you either have a civil service job or you have
> > temporary work.
>
> And, one needs to realize that working for the govt does not mean you have
> a (real) civil service job. They are going by the wayside, too.

I have been clinging to the notion that a gov. job here was, like in France,
a bastion of job security and pensions. I didn't realize that this was
being dismantled too. Job security and pensions are gone for the incoming
work force in the private sector.

And you have to be an old dinosaur (or a CEO to have anything like this
today. Old dinosaurs be forewarned! Every sneaky, underhanded but legal
way to blow off pension obligations are now being plotted in law offices
across the country. And you will be surprised at what can be made legal
with $.

Is your pension under your own personal control or is someone else holding
the money for you?

> Outside of civil service, one can have a career in a
> > profession. But it is no longer possible to have a career with a
company.
> > Nowadays all corp. entities go through a cycle that goes from
> > Profitability>Growth>Shrinkage>Bankruptcy.
>
> Actually, there is another path: Profitability (permanent jobs->outsourced
> jobs->offshored jobs, local plants->go extinct->re-appear elsewhere),
> period. eg. Microsoft, IBM, and others

More like bankruptcy > reorganize > pull the same scam all over again.

> Bankruptcy is now the natural
> > and inevitable old age expiration of the corp. with a life expectency
far
> > shorter than any healthy individuals working career.
>
> I'll add "sell little company to big company" too.
>
> > As for me, I'm reconciled to it. I consider everyone to be self
employed.
>
> I'd almost like to write a book on "survival for the citizen by self
> employment" because that is the only alternative if you keep sending
> hundreds to thousands of resumes in and never get an interview (or the
> other thing: "networking" which to me, was called in the old days "putting
> the word out to your friends, who passed it along to their friends, etc")

If you can follow through and write that book, I'm sure it will sell. If
you sign a copy, I will buy one myself People on this newsgroup seem in
particular need of entrepreneurial skills. Not because self employment is
necessarily so wonderful - but because it is matter of survival.

Yes, a well written book like that could definitely sell.

> > Notions of a formal job Vs. self employment Vs. S Corp Vs. Salary Vs.
Wage
> > ... etc. are mere details you shift between to accomodate the winds of
> > change.
> >
> > Pension benefits? Medical Benefits? Insurance Benefits? Vacation
Benefits?
> > There is always a "bankruptcy" standing between you and promised
"benefits".
> > I'll just take cash up front - thank you very much.
>
> And, don't spend it all in one place, or put it all in just one bank,
> either.

I get the frugality part. I just haven't quite reached your level of
paranoia to worry about a bank bust. Your bank deposit in any particular
bank is (I think! safe for all but a monetary system collapse. And if
that, all bets are off anyway.

> >>> Another marveleous French innovation to solve high unemployment
rates -
> >>
> >> Well, we'll have to see. If all this globalization proceeds as the
"free
> >> traders" want it, then all those big bags of money will be able to
afford
> >> the freedom and those people without any bags of money will have to go
> >> scratch.
> >>
> >>> If you are self employed and own your own business, you *must* sell it
> > and
> >>> get the hell out when you reach retirement age.
> >>
> >> Yep. But, I'm sure there are ways around this. I'm sure the French
lawyers
> >> can put together a small "corporation" just like in Germany (Gmb) or
> >> England (Ltd).
> >>
> >> You are simply not
> >>> permitted to earn a living past (62? 65?) but must sell your business
> > (nice
> >>> fire sale!) and take a pension.
> >>
> >> I like pensions.
> >
> > I'm sure you do I like em too, just like I like winning the
lottery!
> > Unfortunately, it just ain't gonna happen.
>
> Well, the wife's is a state pension, and mine is from another state. I
> have less fear than if its a pension with an underfunded corporation.
>
> > There is only Roth IRA that I control
>
> Be glad for this.

Oh yes, I am glad! I only regret that it took me so long to get religion

But I'm not convinced that our gov. isn't going to find a peachy way to
renege on it's promises and tax that money again when ill health or age
discrimination finally forces me out of the working world.

> > and (maybe!) Soc. Sec. in some
> > penurious mutation of the present system.
>
> Will depend on when you plan to access SS. They are talking about problems
> in 2035+, but I'm sure they are going to push back "full retirement" to
> higher ages as time goes by, and give deeper cuts to those who access at
> age 62, so that will save some money. Also, I think they are taking bigger
> bites out of higher salary people, too. Not percentage, but they raised
> the caps.

Politics dictates we will keep Soc. Sec but I'm convinced it is going to be
leaner and meaner long before 2035. Younger people are going rightfully
rebel against the tax load they will pay for a system that won't be nearly
so generous for them. Older dudes like you and I will have no defense when
it happens.

> Like I said - I'll stick with
> > cash to be deposited in *my* account. Pensions that inspired me to great
> > efforts in my naive youth have blown away like the gold dust in "The
> > Treasure of the Sierra Madre" (great movie!).
>
> Yeah, I know what you mean.
>
> >> This is seen as having had your chance and
> >>> making room for those oh so lucky French youth.
> >>
> >> Fine, they can get a loan from a bank, even an Indian bank.
> >>
> >> And buy out some old foggie.
> >
> > Good plan But what I think happens is that these small businesses
get
> > passed down from father to son/daughter.
>
> Yeah, but this happens here, too. I know of many cases.
>
> Birth is still the key to success
> > in France.
>
> Hah! It is here too. If you're born in a rich family, usually the
> immediate family gets inheritances. In the "rich" stories (shall I post
> them again?), about 1/4 of the people who are rich now never worked for
> that money. True, its often a surviving wife, so maybe that is
> justifiable. Maybe sharing some family booty at death is not unjust, but
> if you're born into money, usually you're going to get some.
>
> Not that it isn't an extraordinary advantage here
> > But get a loan from an Indian bank ??? What do they demand for
collateral ?
>
> Your job. (that was supposed to be a funny joke).
>
> > And what can you buy in France with rupees?
>
> Nobody buys anything in France with Rupees. They all buy stuff in France
> with US$, just like everyone else in the world. Ask Kamal. He's so upset
> that "we" print so much of this money that it inflates our currency, but
> just try to get him to acknowledge that all that inflated currency is
> helping drag India (or at least parts of it, the non-Dalit part) out of
> poverty.

Iraq, Mexico, India are all ungrateful welfare basket cases on the US dole.
India is going make a particularly stinky mess. Can you spell b u s t ?

Thomas Bartkus

> > Thomas Bartkus
 >> Stay informed about: France just withdrew the new job law.... 

Straydog wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Thomas Bartkus wrote:
>
> > "Straydog" wrote in message
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, 10 Apr 2006, Thomas Bartkus wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Straydog" wrote in message
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Saw it on front page, today's WP, on line.
> >>>>
> >>>> There's a good side to that news, and a bad side to that news.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I presume you are talking about good & bad news for young French
> > citizens.
> >>>
> >>> The good
> >>> If you are young and employed, you can keep your job - no matter
> > what.
> >>>
> >>> The bad
> >>> If you are young and unemployed, you can't have a job - no matter
> > what.
> >>
> >> Yeah, more or less. However, I was under the impression that the
> >> modification to the existing law was only for people during their first
> >> two years of work.
> >>
> >>> You get wonderful job security with only this minor little drawback that
> > you
> >>> can't actually *have* a job. Ahhh - To be French!

does your (anybody's) bill of rights owe you a job funded by wealth not
owned by the taxpayer/govt?
[snip]
> > As for me, I'm reconciled to it. I consider everyone to be self employed.
>
looks like you are one step closer to concluding that jobs don't belong
to the country/citizenry.

> I'd almost like to write a book on "survival for the citizen by self
> employment" because that is the only alternative if you keep sending
> hundreds to thousands of resumes in and never get an interview (or the
> other thing: "networking" which to me, was called in the old days "putting
> the word out to your friends, who passed it along to their friends, etc")
>
yeah -resume banks are useless. Reputation and personal contacts are
what really count -at least for a person with more than 10 yrs of
experience.

> > Notions of a formal job Vs. self employment Vs. S Corp Vs. Salary Vs. Wage
> > ... etc. are mere details you shift between to accomodate the winds of
> > change.
> >
> > Pension benefits? Medical Benefits? Insurance Benefits? Vacation Benefits?
> > There is always a "bankruptcy" standing between you and promised "benefits".
> > I'll just take cash up front - thank you very much.
some govt intervention can help i.e. if govt stands guarantee towards
disbursment of funds. The Indian govt is planning something along these
lines.

>
> And, don't spend it all in one place, or put it all in just one bank,
> either.
>
> >>> Another marveleous French innovation to solve high unemployment rates -
> >>
> >> Well, we'll have to see. If all this globalization proceeds as the "free
> >> traders" want it, then all those big bags of money will be able to afford
> >> the freedom and those people without any bags of money will have to go
> >> scratch.
> >>
> >>> If you are self employed and own your own business, you *must* sell it
> > and
> >>> get the hell out when you reach retirement age.

really ? why?
[snip]
>
> Birth is still the key to success
> > in France.
>
> Hah! It is here too. If you're born in a rich family, usually the
> immediate family gets inheritances. In the "rich" stories (shall I post
> them again?), about 1/4 of the people who are rich now never worked for
> that money. True, its often a surviving wife, so maybe that is
> justifiable. Maybe sharing some family booty at death is not unjust, but
> if you're born into money, usually you're going to get some.
>
lots of people make it big starting small. Starting big makes for a
more comfortable ride.

> Not that it isn't an extraordinary advantage here
> > But get a loan from an Indian bank ??? What do they demand for collateral ?
>
In India, they demand proof of employment. They won't give it to a
person who is not employed here or an Indian citizen not employed
overseas. The only people they loan money to -are ones from whom they
expect full repayment.

> Your job. (that was supposed to be a funny joke).
>
> > And what can you buy in France with rupees?
>
> Nobody buys anything in France with Rupees. They all buy stuff in France
> with US$, just like everyone else in the world. Ask Kamal. He's so upset

No -they buy with Euros. One can also use a credit card issued by an
Indian bank to buy stuff anywhere in the world. It works just fine for
me.

> that "we" print so much of this money that it inflates our currency, but
> just try to get him to acknowledge that all that inflated currency is
> helping drag India (or at least parts of it, the non-Dalit part) out of
> poverty.
>
it has -accidentally and not intentionally. The failure of the US govt
to come up with a fool-proof scam has resulted in a huge trade
imbalance and a massive shift of industries.
At the time when Robert Rubin was working with currency traders to
inflate the USD into the stratosphere -the idea of it resulting in a
shift of entire industries probably didn't cross his mind.

regards
-kamal
 >> Stay informed about: France just withdrew the new job law.... 

Threeducks wrote:
> Kamal R. Prasad wrote:
> > Straydog wrote:
> >
> >>On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Thomas Bartkus wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>"Straydog" wrote in message
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>On Mon, 10 Apr 2006, Thomas Bartkus wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"Straydog" wrote in message
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Saw it on front page, today's WP, on line.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>There's a good side to that news, and a bad side to that news.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I presume you are talking about good & bad news for young French
> >>>
> >>>citizens.
> >>>
> >>>>>The good
> >>>>> If you are young and employed, you can keep your job - no matter
> >>>
> >>>what.
> >>>
> >>>>>The bad
> >>>>> If you are young and unemployed, you can't have a job - no matter
> >>>
> >>>what.
> >>>
> >>>>Yeah, more or less. However, I was under the impression that the
> >>>>modification to the existing law was only for people during their first
> >>>>two years of work.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>You get wonderful job security with only this minor little drawback that
> >>>
> >>>you
> >>>
> >>>>>can't actually *have* a job. Ahhh - To be French!
> >
> >
> > does your (anybody's) bill of rights owe you a job funded by wealth not
> > owned by the taxpayer/govt?
> > [snip]
> >
> >>>As for me, I'm reconciled to it. I consider everyone to be self employed.
> >>
> > looks like you are one step closer to concluding that jobs don't belong
> > to the country/citizenry.
> >
> >
> >>I'd almost like to write a book on "survival for the citizen by self
> >>employment" because that is the only alternative if you keep sending
> >>hundreds to thousands of resumes in and never get an interview (or the
> >>other thing: "networking" which to me, was called in the old days "putting
> >>the word out to your friends, who passed it along to their friends, etc")
> >>
> >
> > yeah -resume banks are useless. Reputation and personal contacts are
> > what really count -at least for a person with more than 10 yrs of
> > experience.
> >
> >
> >>>Notions of a formal job Vs. self employment Vs. S Corp Vs. Salary Vs. Wage
> >>>... etc. are mere details you shift between to accomodate the winds of
> >>>change.
> >>>
> >>>Pension benefits? Medical Benefits? Insurance Benefits? Vacation Benefits?
> >>>There is always a "bankruptcy" standing between you and promised "benefits".
> >>>I'll just take cash up front - thank you very much.
> >
> > some govt intervention can help i.e. if govt stands guarantee towards
> > disbursment of funds. The Indian govt is planning something along these
> > lines.
> >
> >
> >>And, don't spend it all in one place, or put it all in just one bank,
> >>either.
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>Another marveleous French innovation to solve high unemployment rates -
> >>>>
> >>>>Well, we'll have to see. If all this globalization proceeds as the "free
> >>>>traders" want it, then all those big bags of money will be able to afford
> >>>>the freedom and those people without any bags of money will have to go
> >>>>scratch.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>If you are self employed and own your own business, you *must* sell it
> >>>
> >>>and
> >>>
> >>>>>get the hell out when you reach retirement age.
> >
> >
> > really ? why?
> > [snip]
> >
> >> Birth is still the key to success
> >>
> >>>in France.
> >>
> >>Hah! It is here too. If you're born in a rich family, usually the
> >>immediate family gets inheritances. In the "rich" stories (shall I post
> >>them again?), about 1/4 of the people who are rich now never worked for
> >>that money. True, its often a surviving wife, so maybe that is
> >>justifiable. Maybe sharing some family booty at death is not unjust, but
> >>if you're born into money, usually you're going to get some.
> >>
> >
> > lots of people make it big starting small. Starting big makes for a
> > more comfortable ride.
> >
> >
> >> Not that it isn't an extraordinary advantage here
> >>
> >>>But get a loan from an Indian bank ??? What do they demand for collateral ?
> >>
> > In India, they demand proof of employment. They won't give it to a
> > person who is not employed here or an Indian citizen not employed
> > overseas. The only people they loan money to -are ones from whom they
> > expect full repayment.
> >
> >
> >>Your job. (that was supposed to be a funny joke).
> >>
> >>
> >>>And what can you buy in France with rupees?
> >>
> >>Nobody buys anything in France with Rupees. They all buy stuff in France
> >>with US$, just like everyone else in the world. Ask Kamal. He's so upset
> >
> >
> > No -they buy with Euros. One can also use a credit card issued by an
> > Indian bank to buy stuff anywhere in the world. It works just fine for
> > me.
> >
> >
> >>that "we" print so much of this money that it inflates our currency, but
> >>just try to get him to acknowledge that all that inflated currency is
> >>helping drag India (or at least parts of it, the non-Dalit part) out of
> >>poverty.
> >>
> >
> > it has -accidentally and not intentionally. The failure of the US govt
> > to come up with a fool-proof scam has resulted in a huge trade
> > imbalance and a massive shift of industries.
> > At the time when Robert Rubin was working with currency traders to
> > inflate the USD into the stratosphere -the idea of it resulting in a
> > shift of entire industries probably didn't cross his mind.
> >
>
> The only thing that has "shifted" to India is IT. India has no
> significant manufacturing presence in the world economy.

for a start yes -it has been mostly IT and call centres. Now, many
other jobs that don't require good infrastructure have started shifting
to India. These include accounting, tax preparation, financial research
etc.. Compared to many export-oriented countries, we have dismal
infrastructure and lots of trade barriers which prevent free flow of
goods. But then, anything involving math/abstraction seldom requires
infrastructure .

regards
-kamal
 >> Stay informed about: France just withdrew the new job law.... 

Kamal R. Prasad wrote:
> Straydog wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Thomas Bartkus wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Straydog" wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Mon, 10 Apr 2006, Thomas Bartkus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Straydog" wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Saw it on front page, today's WP, on line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There's a good side to that news, and a bad side to that news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I presume you are talking about good & bad news for young French
>>>
>>>citizens.
>>>
>>>>>The good
>>>>> If you are young and employed, you can keep your job - no matter
>>>
>>>what.
>>>
>>>>>The bad
>>>>> If you are young and unemployed, you can't have a job - no matter
>>>
>>>what.
>>>
>>>>Yeah, more or less. However, I was under the impression that the
>>>>modification to the existing law was only for people during their first
>>>>two years of work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>You get wonderful job security with only this minor little drawback that
>>>
>>>you
>>>
>>>>>can't actually *have* a job. Ahhh - To be French!
>
>
> does your (anybody's) bill of rights owe you a job funded by wealth not
> owned by the taxpayer/govt?
> [snip]
>
>>>As for me, I'm reconciled to it. I consider everyone to be self employed.
>>
> looks like you are one step closer to concluding that jobs don't belong
> to the country/citizenry.
>
>
>>I'd almost like to write a book on "survival for the citizen by self
>>employment" because that is the only alternative if you keep sending
>>hundreds to thousands of resumes in and never get an interview (or the
>>other thing: "networking" which to me, was called in the old days "putting
>>the word out to your friends, who passed it along to their friends, etc")
>>
>
> yeah -resume banks are useless. Reputation and personal contacts are
> what really count -at least for a person with more than 10 yrs of
> experience.
>
>
>>>Notions of a formal job Vs. self employment Vs. S Corp Vs. Salary Vs. Wage
>>>... etc. are mere details you shift between to accomodate the winds of
>>>change.
>>>
>>>Pension benefits? Medical Benefits? Insurance Benefits? Vacation Benefits?
>>>There is always a "bankruptcy" standing between you and promised "benefits".
>>>I'll just take cash up front - thank you very much.
>
> some govt intervention can help i.e. if govt stands guarantee towards
> disbursment of funds. The Indian govt is planning something along these
> lines.
>
>
>>And, don't spend it all in one place, or put it all in just one bank,
>>either.
>>
>>
>>>>>Another marveleous French innovation to solve high unemployment rates -
>>>>
>>>>Well, we'll have to see. If all this globalization proceeds as the "free
>>>>traders" want it, then all those big bags of money will be able to afford
>>>>the freedom and those people without any bags of money will have to go
>>>>scratch.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>If you are self employed and own your own business, you *must* sell it
>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>>>get the hell out when you reach retirement age.
>
>
> really ? why?
> [snip]
>
>> Birth is still the key to success
>>
>>>in France.
>>
>>Hah! It is here too. If you're born in a rich family, usually the
>>immediate family gets inheritances. In the "rich" stories (shall I post
>>them again?), about 1/4 of the people who are rich now never worked for
>>that money. True, its often a surviving wife, so maybe that is
>>justifiable. Maybe sharing some family booty at death is not unjust, but
>>if you're born into money, usually you're going to get some.
>>
>
> lots of people make it big starting small. Starting big makes for a
> more comfortable ride.
>
>
>> Not that it isn't an extraordinary advantage here
>>
>>>But get a loan from an Indian bank ??? What do they demand for collateral ?
>>
> In India, they demand proof of employment. They won't give it to a
> person who is not employed here or an Indian citizen not employed
> overseas. The only people they loan money to -are ones from whom they
> expect full repayment.
>
>
>>Your job. (that was supposed to be a funny joke).
>>
>>
>>>And what can you buy in France with rupees?
>>
>>Nobody buys anything in France with Rupees. They all buy stuff in France
>>with US$, just like everyone else in the world. Ask Kamal. He's so upset
>
>
> No -they buy with Euros. One can also use a credit card issued by an
> Indian bank to buy stuff anywhere in the world. It works just fine for
> me.
>
>
>>that "we" print so much of this money that it inflates our currency, but
>>just try to get him to acknowledge that all that inflated currency is
>>helping drag India (or at least parts of it, the non-Dalit part) out of
>>poverty.
>>
>
> it has -accidentally and not intentionally. The failure of the US govt
> to come up with a fool-proof scam has resulted in a huge trade
> imbalance and a massive shift of industries.
> At the time when Robert Rubin was working with currency traders to
> inflate the USD into the stratosphere -the idea of it resulting in a
> shift of entire industries probably didn't cross his mind.
>

The only thing that has "shifted" to India is IT. India has no
significant manufacturing presence in the world economy.
 >> Stay informed about: France just withdrew the new job law.... 

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006, Kamal R. Prasad wrote:

>
> Straydog wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Apr 2006, Thomas Bartkus wrote:
>>
>>> "Straydog" wrote in message
>>>
>>>>
>>>>


>>>> modification to the existing law was only for people during their first
>>>> two years of work.
>>>>
>>>>> You get wonderful job security with only this minor little drawback that
>>> you
>>>>> can't actually *have* a job. Ahhh - To be French!
>
> does your (anybody's) bill of rights owe you a job funded by wealth not
> owned by the taxpayer/govt?

Well, for one, money owned by rich people is owed to the
various governments through many taxes. And, its a fact that our
unemployment insurance is paid by the employer, not the employee.

And, from the high job security in at least some European jobs (Germany,
France), it looks pretty close like people in jobs there have almost a
guaranteed ("owed") job for life. At least that is what it sounds like in
newspapers I'm reading. And, as a matter of fact, for a lot of those union
jobs left in the USA, a boss cannot just fire some guy without a hearing
and without a chance for the guy named to be fired to give his side of the
story and become re-instated. From some stories I heard, this is true in
many countries. I heard from a guy in Turkey that they have real tenure in
the universities there.

> [snip]
>>> As for me, I'm reconciled to it. I consider everyone to be self employed.
>>
> looks like you are one step closer to concluding that jobs don't belong
> to the country/citizenry.

I have no idea how this sentence makes any sense.

>> I'd almost like to write a book on "survival for the citizen by self
>> employment" because that is the only alternative if you keep sending
>> hundreds to thousands of resumes in and never get an interview (or the
>> other thing: "networking" which to me, was called in the old days "putting
>> the word out to your friends, who passed it along to their friends, etc")
>>
> yeah -resume banks are useless. Reputation and personal contacts are
> what really count -at least for a person with more than 10 yrs of
> experience.

No, going into business for oneself is best.

>>
>> Nobody buys anything in France with Rupees. They all buy stuff in France
>> with US$, just like everyone else in the world. Ask Kamal. He's so upset
>
> No -they buy with Euros.

Not true. Euros are not all phased in yet.

>
>> that "we" print so much of this money that it inflates our currency, but
>> just try to get him to acknowledge that all that inflated currency is
>> helping drag India (or at least parts of it, the non-Dalit part) out of
>> poverty.
>>
> it has -accidentally and not intentionally.

Oh, so all of Wipro and Infosys and all the others (Microsoft, HP, Intel,
IBM) just came out of nothing, eh? And, just dropped out of the sky by
accident over India?

> The failure of the US govt

And, where was the Indian government in all this? Standing by with its
eyes closed?

> to come up with a fool-proof scam has resulted in a huge trade
> imbalance and a massive shift of industries.

Are you really complaining about how all this benefits India?

> At the time when Robert Rubin was working with currency traders to
> inflate the USD into the stratosphere

How about we talk about how the Rupee was not fully convertible all these
years. How your India lobby pilfers and manipulates out politicians. How
you keep your Rupee cheap.

-the idea of it resulting in a
> shift of entire industries probably didn't cross his mind.

Like you say, all for profit.

> regards
> -kamal
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: France just withdrew the new job law....