Gestapo USA: anyone read the NSA phone database scandal yet?

Straydog wrote:
>
> Or, is this just giant turf-building in an expanding bureacracy?
>

I think this is exactly what it is. This war on terror is an
opportunity for a weak politician to earn political capital . Any
government must deal with such thing. And usually the government always
win. All outburst of terrorism in Europe have been defeated sooner or
later. European situation is more complex than here because such
terrorists like the Red Brigade or Bader-Meinhof. or in IRA were home
grown and therefore had an infrastructure and support among population.
So, it took time. The major reason why we have not seen any major
terrorist attack in America is that despite all the differences people
are very hostile to the idea of terrorism and any terrorist group would
be very quickly disclosed. It is this fact and not the billions that
has prevented attacks so far. And, well, profiling with respect to
Arabs turns out to be very helpful as well.
 >> Stay informed about: Gestapo USA: anyone read the NSA phone database scandal yet? 

Old Pif wrote:
> Straydog wrote:
> >
> > Or, is this just giant turf-building in an expanding bureacracy?
> >
>
> I think this is exactly what it is. This war on terror is an
> opportunity for a weak politician to earn political capital . Any
> government must deal with such thing. And usually the government always

Yep -national security is a wild card that helps in all circumstances.
You can use it to justify invading Iraq, the huge spending that has
bright chances of bankrupting the treassury, not granting illegals due
rights so as to extract max out of them etc.. I read a post by Robert
Kolker that said that since I do not like slavery as institutted by the
H1b legislation, I must be a serious threat to national security and
sent back home. What he doesn't know is that the job that could have
dragged me to the US has itself shifted out of the US.

> win. All outburst of terrorism in Europe have been defeated sooner or
> later. European situation is more complex than here because such
> terrorists like the Red Brigade or Bader-Meinhof. or in IRA were home
> grown and therefore had an infrastructure and support among population.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. The IRA was
successful because the British govt dis-franchised the Irish [and then
there is the culture clash between catholics and protestants].

> So, it took time. The major reason why we have not seen any major
> terrorist attack in America is that despite all the differences people
> are very hostile to the idea of terrorism and any terrorist group would
> be very quickly disclosed. It is this fact and not the billions that

No -the US govt foiled many attacks. OTOH, it is possible that the only
attack that took place was an inside job [or so believe most residents
of NYC].

regards
-kamal
 >> Stay informed about: Gestapo USA: anyone read the NSA phone database scandal yet? 

"Kamal R. Prasad" wrote in message

>
OTOH, it is possible that the only
> attack that took place was an inside job [or so believe most residents
> of NYC].
>
> regards
> -kamal
>

(The following to be read with dripping sarcasm, just in case it isn't
ovious to some naive reader).

Yeah sure it was an inside job Kamal. Rumsfield himself arranged it? Yeah
sure Kamal. The owners of the World Trade Center arranged the attack
themselves to collect insurance money? Mayor Guilliani was in on the plot
too, so he could get famous and run for President? All those New Yorkers
running for their lives just wanted some exercise? A nice walk across the
Brooklyn bridge. They knew it was coming and brought picnic baskets, but
forgot to tell a handful that they would first have to jumpt 1000 feet to
the sidewalk before participating. And then there were the New Yorkers who
were part of the "inside job." They thought it was so cool they could
withstand the heat of the burning jet fuel.
________________________________________________
End of sarcasm.
_____________________________________________________
And where in the world did you Kamal get the idea that most New Yorkers
think it was "an inside job." Don't tell, I don't want to know which Mid
Eastern rag or broadcast media you follow.

I won't characterize you and your posts and views, because this is a public
forum.
 >> Stay informed about: Gestapo USA: anyone read the NSA phone database scandal yet? 

Kamal R. Prasad wrote:
>
> You can skip the hysteria and look at the evidence instead. You should
> see the link of conspiracy theory.org about United Flight 93. There was
> not a single drop of blood where the flight crashed (and that stunned
> the coroner). "Lets roll" was heard over the cellphone -but at 35,000
> ft -cellphones don't work.
> The Apollo mission (claimed to have) landed on the moon in 1968 and no
> such landings have happened ever since. Can they do it once more after
> 40+ yrs of technological advancement? Not -if the original one never
> took place.
>

Hmmm ... I thought you are stupid ... I was wrong. You are insane.
 >> Stay informed about: Gestapo USA: anyone read the NSA phone database scandal yet? 

Old Pif wrote:
> Kamal R. Prasad wrote:
> >
> > You can skip the hysteria and look at the evidence instead. You should
> > see the link of conspiracy theory.org about United Flight 93. There was
> > not a single drop of blood where the flight crashed (and that stunned
> > the coroner). "Lets roll" was heard over the cellphone -but at 35,000
> > ft -cellphones don't work.
> > The Apollo mission (claimed to have) landed on the moon in 1968 and no
> > such landings have happened ever since. Can they do it once more after
> > 40+ yrs of technological advancement? Not -if the original one never
> > took place.
> >
>
> Hmmm ... I thought you are stupid ... I was wrong. You are insane.

Cellphone should not work at a distance of 10 km (from the Earth) -- it
is too far for the signal.

I personally have the reservations that any humans reached the moon.
The challenges are too high. Science is not omnipotent (contrary to
what you might think as a practitioner of the art). This trip might
well be fabricated.
 >> Stay informed about: Gestapo USA: anyone read the NSA phone database scandal yet? 

S. 'Trash' Ny Fui wrote:
> Old Pif wrote:
> > Kamal R. Prasad wrote:
> > >
[snip]

> > Hmmm ... I thought you are stupid ... I was wrong. You are insane.
>
How about you save those adjectives for someone else?

> Cellphone should not work at a distance of 10 km (from the Earth) -- it
> is too far for the signal.
>

Yep -technically it was impossible for anyone to call from flight. I
know it coz I have missed numerous calls while flying. The only thing
that comes close is a hookup via satellite (as opposed to towers on the
ground) for which you need an antenna sticking out of the plane's
nozzle -and that technology has not yet been made available.

> I personally have the reservations that any humans reached the moon.
> The challenges are too high. Science is not omnipotent (contrary to
> what you might think as a practitioner of the art). This trip might
> well be fabricated.

There are some problems associated with surviving radiation while
entering the moon's atmosphere or something like that i.e. the problem
still hasn't been solved either by americans or their more competent.
albeit poorer rivals -the russians.

regards
-kamal
 >> Stay informed about: Gestapo USA: anyone read the NSA phone database scandal yet? 

On Sat, 13 May 2006, S. 'Trash' Ny Fui wrote:

>
> Old Pif wrote:
>> Kamal R. Prasad wrote:
>>>
>>> You can skip the hysteria and look at the evidence instead. You should
>>> see the link of conspiracy theory.org about United Flight 93. There was
>>> not a single drop of blood where the flight crashed (and that stunned
>>> the coroner). "Lets roll" was heard over the cellphone -but at 35,000
>>> ft -cellphones don't work.
>>> The Apollo mission (claimed to have) landed on the moon in 1968 and no
>>> such landings have happened ever since. Can they do it once more after
>>> 40+ yrs of technological advancement? Not -if the original one never
>>> took place.
>>>
>>
>> Hmmm ... I thought you are stupid ... I was wrong. You are insane.
>
> Cellphone should not work at a distance of 10 km (from the Earth) -- it
> is too far for the signal.

What the hell, we've got cell phone towers in my neighborhood and they are
all 10-15 miles appart. If you are in the middle of that distance, then
you are 7 miles from the nearest one (7 miles~ 8 km), and besides that,
we've got a lot of trees around here which attenuate the signal
significantly. You get on an airplane and put your cellphone up to the
center of the window, and the signal is going to be plenty good. I'll bet
money on it.

> I personally have the reservations that any humans reached the moon.
> The challenges are too high. Science is not omnipotent (contrary to
> what you might think as a practitioner of the art). This trip might
> well be fabricated.

Well, then how do you explain the laser reflection array that was placed
on the moon, physically, to better reflect laser light pulses from earth.
It is probably within the budget, today, of anyone who has some money to
build a laser, optics, and detector, and aim at the site where they put
that array which is supposed to increase light pulse reflectivity over
average lunar reflectivity.

Anyone else want to chime in with some good evidence? Can you
still guy moondust samples from NASA? Is that stuff like or unlike
earthdust?
 >> Stay informed about: Gestapo USA: anyone read the NSA phone database scandal yet? 

On Sat, 13 May 2006, Kamal R. Prasad wrote:

>
> S. 'Trash' Ny Fui wrote:
>> Old Pif wrote:
>>> Kamal R. Prasad wrote:
>>>>
> [snip]
>
>>> Hmmm ... I thought you are stupid ... I was wrong. You are insane.
>>
> How about you save those adjectives for someone else?
>
>> Cellphone should not work at a distance of 10 km (from the Earth) -- it
>> is too far for the signal.
>>
>
> Yep -technically it was impossible for anyone to call from flight. I
> know it coz I have missed numerous calls while flying.

And, let me ask you some questions since you did not provide the facts
about the physics of radio communications:
1. Was your cellphone actually turned on?
2. Was it folded up in your pocket? Or did you hold it with your hand or
tape to the center of the airplane window?
3. Over your flightpath (and, um, over what country/countries/oceans?),
where exactly were the cell phone towers?
4. If over India (which does not have anywhere near the network that
exists in better developed countries, and which has a lot but nowhere near
the number of cellphones as in US [200mil] or China [200 mil]) did your
calls come when you really were out of range?
5. If you are on one side of the plane, and the only cell tower is on the
other side of the plane, you would significantly reduce the signal.

I know licensed ham radio operators operating VHF and UHF "handi-talkie"
radios that run maybe a few watts more than a cell phone and they have no
problem talking to a "repeater" from a plane flying at any altitude.

The only thing
> that comes close is a hookup via satellite (as opposed to towers on the
> ground) for which you need an antenna sticking out of the plane's
> nozzle -and that technology has not yet been made available.

There has benn air-to-ground public telephones on a number of planes I've
been o. I can also tell you that line-of-sight communications via radio at
cell phone power levels is good for at least 50 miles.

>> I personally have the reservations that any humans reached the moon.
>> The challenges are too high. Science is not omnipotent (contrary to
>> what you might think as a practitioner of the art). This trip might
>> well be fabricated.
>
> There are some problems associated with surviving radiation while
> entering the moon's atmosphere

Moon doesn't have an atmosphere. Not enough gravity. Its in the astronomy
books. Or, do you doubt them and just make up facts as you go?

or something like that i.e. the problem
> still hasn't been solved either by americans or their more competent.
> albeit poorer rivals -the russians.

I am quite sure that radar technology and radar records are very good at
tracking reflective space objects. I am a licensed ham radio operator and
have read most of the radio technology for the last 60 years as it
developed, and about radio technology since it was discovered. It may
interest you to know that ham radio operators can build, for a few
thousand dollars, equipment that will send a radio pulse to the moon and
receive a detectable echo. I knew one guy who actuall did this. At least
once per year, there is an international contest dealing with contacts by
moonbounce and these are written up and published.

I seriously doubt that, especially with Russian radar tracking US space
projects and US radar tracking Russian space projects, and the radar
technology not out of the reach of modest investments by private
individuals and other 3rd parties, that any government would dare proclaim
a fake space project in the face of possible exposure by one or more third
parties.

I have not disproved your "doubts" but I will claim that your doubts are
just not credible.

> regards
> -kamal
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Gestapo USA: anyone read the NSA phone database scandal yet? 

S. 'Trash' Ny Fui wrote:
>
> Cellphone should not work at a distance of 10 km (from the Earth) -- it
> is too far for the signal.
>

Some people hear voices in their heads. You can use that for
communication.

>
> I personally have the reservations that any humans reached the moon.
> The challenges are too high. Science is not omnipotent (contrary to
> what you might think as a practitioner of the art). This trip might
> well be fabricated.
>

Of course it is no omnipotent it is impotent.
 >> Stay informed about: Gestapo USA: anyone read the NSA phone database scandal yet? 

--
Phil Scott
Ideas are bullet proof.
"Old Pif" wrote in message

>
> Straydog wrote:
>>
>> I read the big article in USA Today. It went into the
>> history of illegal
>> monitoring of US citizens even decades ago. Agencies were
>> not supposed to
>> be doing it, but they did anyway.
>>
>
> Trying to be positive ... the advantage of American
> political system
> (or disadvantage - depends on the point of view) is that
> nobody pays
> any attention to what people saying. Which means that the
> money have
> been waisted for the most part. I have not heard about any
> processes on
> terrorists that resulted from these monitoring.

The US ... NSA and homeland security.... are complete and
utterly corrupt sociopaths..they will spend billions tracing
such posts as this that mention the issues, such as dirty
bombs, biological warfare, and terrorism and completely miss
communication that is actually relevant...

those actually out to do damage will use a variety of ever
changing key words, numbers and algorithms...from random phone
numbers, under a wide range of names...and from disposable
cells, cyber cafe's and web phones, and messages passed via
advertisements for dog washing etc.

This mess will go on until the US ceases making enemies such
as the CIA has for decades in the middle east and still does
with the ludicrously counter productive tortures at US prison
camps... not impressive... the marks of completely corrupt
idiots, so corrupt and idiotic that not even the miscreants
can't dream of defending those actions... these just try to
hide them.

... it is way way way too late for that now, the entire rest of
the world has a clooo....

....now and with corrupt and bloated government we have wasted
our national heritage, we have a baby bust, our school system
is producing 4% in math and science... asia, 30%. our tax
base is in collapse and we have invaded the arab states to
waste the last of our capitol, both monitary... and national
respect.

all wasted...by whom? By us the US citizens who have elected
then tolerated complete, obvious, disasterous and entirely
fatal corruption in office... yet we stand by now as our
phones are tapped by morons utterly unable to fathom that no
self respecting adversary makes themselved vulnerable on those
lines...instead planting billions of bits of disinformation
that our idiots in charge are then forced to act on.

The mind boggles at such a mess.


Sort of like IRS that became so ruthless in the 60
s and 80's it was known for stalking old folks with bogus
claims in order to seize their homes... and got TV publicity
for beating the windshield out on an old VW driven by a young
pregnant woman unable to pay her taxes... utterly sickening...

now today there are so many that cannot even dream of paying,
the IRS cannot hire enough thugs to go after 1 in a
thousand... then when they do, they cannot collect enough to
cover a tenth of their net costs..... the person has nothing.

So now its only the rich they go after, those hire attorneys,
and the paid off elected officials call off the hunt....

a nation in collapse however goes until it has beaten the life
of the very last citizen. Then collapses out of amunition in
the face of its enemy... maybe if we our lucky ours will laugh
themselves do death before we run out of national guardsmen to
shoot them.


thats just how it is.

Short sighted idiots never learn... these seek only to satisfy
their own very short term interests no matter the cost to the
rest of humanity.... it is probably best in many cases to
find a way to stand aside from this mess.... while one has the
resourses to do so.







Phil Scott



>
 >> Stay informed about: Gestapo USA: anyone read the NSA phone database scandal yet? 

--
Phil Scott
Ideas are bullet proof.
"Old Pif" wrote in message

>
> Straydog wrote:
>>
>> Or, is this just giant turf-building in an expanding
>> bureacracy?
>>
>
> I think this is exactly what it is. This war on terror is an
> opportunity for a weak politician to earn political capital
> . Any
> government must deal with such thing. And usually the
> government always
> win. All outburst of terrorism in Europe have been defeated
> sooner or
> later. European situation is more complex than here because
> such
> terrorists like the Red Brigade or Bader-Meinhof. or in IRA
> were home
> grown and therefore had an infrastructure and support among
> population.
> So, it took time. The major reason why we have not seen any
> major
> terrorist attack in America is that despite all the
> differences people
> are very hostile to the idea of terrorism and any terrorist
> group would
> be very quickly disclosed.

Sorry, that is not correct. The most effective terrorist
activities require only one person acting alone.... 10
individuals in concert is completely common... not detectable
in most cases, we have examples throughout history...and
these, just 10 can take out our national viability with
pathogens... very easily...almost effortlessly. Our
military leaders know this full well.

We are trying intimidation tactics to forstall such an attack,
demonstrating that will be utterly ruthless with whichever
host nation is involved....and that might work... but an
ability to actually stop such an attack? zero. Even a dirty
nuclear bomb sent into the US via one of our ports...our
chances of stopping that, slim. None of that is news.



Biological terrorism, or attacks on our electrical
infrastructure are well known to be unpreventable, and not
traceable to the source.... I had dinner with one of the
southwests prominent utility executives in early 2002, he said
the US govt was in meetings with them as devils advocates
asking for ways in which they could be sabataged.... there are
hundreds of ways, that cost 20 cents each... that can take out
a quarter of the west coast electrical infrastructure for 6
months... collapsing our vital economy...with literally
hundreds of foreign born engineers on the inside that would
know exactly how to instruct someone to do it........most
idiots could figure it out with little or no help, or asking
an electrical engineer in their own country... 100%
untraceably, with virtually no logistics necessary, and at
that time with near perfect escape. Today with some
hardening of the targets taking place, and public surveylance,
there is a 50% chance in some cases that the perpetrator would
be caught... please not however that most of these are on
suicide missions, they consider getting caught or dying in the
effort the ultimate honor.

Currently these seem content to watch us destroy ourselves in
a panic... we are doing a fine fine job of that...chasing
ghosts and making more enemies each day.

We would have done 10,000 percent better to bomb iraq with
refrigerated containers of sushi, beer and sushi chefs...with
portable generator sets and AC units... the entire nation
would love us now, and would have elected our own corrupt
politicians to run the nation.... but nooooo.... we had to jam
broom handles up the asses of their cab drivers.

that was not smart you see.... it was the act of completely
self destructive lunatics...and the rest of the world knows
that full well.... and had tried from day one to disuade
us.... so what die we do? Then we lied about it. And have
been caught in the lies.... as our national treasure is now
toast....and our GI's return with DU poisoning, that spins
into our gene pool.

Complete and utterly insanity from the start.





none of this is even remotely a secret...disinformation to
sooth the US natives not withstanding...

worse with biological terrorism... the disinformation is
mention of the air vector..thats dilute you see... the air
vector except in the case of small pox and a few others is not
effective and will blow back on rest of the world as a new
pandemic... so that is not happening.



there is no way in hell to stop, intercept or detect water
born pathogens in time... these can be completely destructive
and depending on which need only be 1% effective to trigger a
human born plague...or simply botulism poisoning which will
not cause a pandemic... the enemy choices are virtually
limitless...and the sources entirely undetectable.


any effort at researching these issues will demonstrate the
point...none of it is beyond the reach of any high school
level biology student anywhere in the world.... our enemies
have thousands of PhD' level scientists who hate our guts,
several in Bin Ladens camp... they are pulling their punches.
We are taking the credit.

its laughable.



>It is this fact and not the billions that
> has prevented attacks so far. And, well, profiling with
> respect to
> Arabs turns out to be very helpful as well.\


Your assumption is that tight knit cell of terrorists is
detectable by its own, and will be reported.... that has only
happened occasionally in history. Most in that class are not
detected. We have many examples in Israel, northern Ireland,
and from the various restance movements in world war 2, and
now in Iraq.

these are seldom detectable.



Phil Scott

>
 >> Stay informed about: Gestapo USA: anyone read the NSA phone database scandal yet? 

--
Phil Scott
Ideas are bullet proof.
"Smith Rhoade" wrote in message

>
> "Kamal R. Prasad" wrote in message
>
>>
> OTOH, it is possible that the only
>> attack that took place was an inside job [or so believe
>> most residents
>> of NYC].
>>
>> regards
>> -kamal
>>
>
> (The following to be read with dripping sarcasm, just in
> case it isn't ovious to some naive reader).
>
> Yeah sure it was an inside job Kamal. Rumsfield himself
> arranged it? Yeah sure Kamal. The owners of the World Trade
> Center arranged the attack themselves to collect insurance
> money? Mayor Guilliani was in on the plot too, so he could
> get famous and run for President? All those New Yorkers
> running for their lives just wanted some exercise? A nice
> walk across the Brooklyn bridge. They knew it was coming
> and brought picnic baskets, but forgot to tell a handful
> that they would first have to jumpt 1000 feet to the
> sidewalk before participating. And then there were the New
> Yorkers who were part of the "inside job." They thought it
> was so cool they could withstand the heat of the burning jet
> fuel.
> ________________________________________________
> End of sarcasm.
> _____________________________________________________
> And where in the world did you Kamal get the idea that most
> New Yorkers think it was "an inside job." Don't tell, I
> don't want to know which Mid Eastern rag or broadcast media
> you follow.
>
> I won't characterize you and your posts and views, because
> this is a public forum.

this entire thing is a mixed bag... replete with planted nut
cases, and equally valid unanswered questions.

On this range of issues I recommend President Dwight D
Eisnhowers remarks at the front end of the movie JFK also
recommended.

Ike was a republican of course...JFK was a democrat. his head
filled full of lead as he was about to elaborate on these
issues it seems...but we will never know for sure why...just
that someone was serious about killing him.

Labling any of this 'conspiracy theory' of course is accurate
as it plays into the hands of an army of nut cases, that then
defuses the fact that all of business and government from the
beginning of time is a conspiracy of a few in league with
others to gain legititimate or illegimate ends.

Eisnhower addressed that from both perspectives in the speech
mentioned above, as does the documentary "the corporation'.
on a wider range of issues.... the legitimacy of the
corporation and its counter part.

Dogma of any stripe, on either side of any situation will not
suffice for a wide eyed look at what actually happens...

but that takes work.

Adoption of one dogma or the other is simpler... its fatal
though. Spouting it is the pastime of idiots.


Phil Scott


>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Gestapo USA: anyone read the NSA phone database scandal yet?