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International job market and jobs.perl.org

 
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Gabor Szabo

External


Since: Jan 14, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:00 am
Post subject: International job market and jobs.perl.org
Archived from groups: perl>jobs>discuss (more info?)

Roland Moritz asked about why there are no perl job offers in Germany
in another e-mail.

I don't know about Germany, I see that in Israel there is a growing number
of jobs in perl - not enough but there are a few.
Non of them makes it to the jobs.perl.org. Some of them make onto the
mailing list of the Israeli Perl Mongers or onto our web site.

I am not sure why and if this is fixable but here is my experience:

1) Once I posted a job there and even though I wrote the job is on
site and if IIRC also that I cannot support relocation about 99% of
the responses came form overseas. When I responded with a no thank you
I even got some angry letters.

A friend of mine who was looking for a perl programmer for Check Point
had similar experience.

2) The whole site seems to be geared toward English speakers,
I mean both the site and the posts are in English and while other
programmers might be also comfortable reading English it is a barrier
to post.


To be clear I am not blaming here anyone and I have no good idea how to
fix this or otherwise improve the site.

Someone might want to translate the site into different languages and
enable posts in those languages as well. The former is relatively easy,
for the latter you'll probably have to have different moderators who can
understand those languages.

That might help to get more International jobs be posted on jobs.perl.org

Gabor
http://www.szabgab.com/

5~

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Roland Moriz

External


Since: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 2



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:08 pm
Post subject: Re: International job market and jobs.perl.org [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hi,

Gabor Szabo wrote:
 >
 > Roland Moritz asked about why there are no perl job offers in Germany
 > in another e-mail.
 >
 > I don't know about Germany, I see that in Israel there is a growing number
 > of jobs in perl - not enough but there are a few.

Mainly in Germany perl skills are required as "add on" knowhow like
"shell scripting/perl/sed/awk skills desired" but not as main qualification.

 > Non of them makes it to the jobs.perl.org. Some of them make onto the
 > mailing list of the Israeli Perl Mongers or onto our web site.
 >
 > I am not sure why and if this is fixable but here is my experience:
 >
 > 1) Once I posted a job there and even though I wrote the job is on
 > site and if IIRC also that I cannot support relocation about 99% of
 > the responses came form overseas. When I responded with a no thank you
 > I even got some angry letters.
 >
 > A friend of mine who was looking for a perl programmer for Check Point
 > had similar experience.

That is a problem, indeed. But that's the daily job of HR. Every job
advertisement will result in many unqualified responses...
I doubt that this is unique to jobs.perl.org

 >
 > 2) The whole site seems to be geared toward English speakers,
 > I mean both the site and the posts are in English and while other
 > programmers might be also comfortable reading English it is a barrier
 > to post.

ack.

 >
 > To be clear I am not blaming here anyone and I have no good idea how to
 > fix this or otherwise improve the site.

there is noone to blame. The service is well done.

 > Someone might want to translate the site into different languages and
 > enable posts in those languages as well. The former is relatively easy,
 > for the latter you'll probably have to have different moderators who can
 > understand those languages.


I can provide German localization and do some 'advertisment' to increase
publicity.


regards,
Roland<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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Adam Turoff

External


Since: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 5



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:08 pm
Post subject: Re: International job market and jobs.perl.org [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 12:08:33PM +0200, Roland Moriz wrote:
 > Gabor Szabo wrote:
  > >Roland Moritz asked about why there are no perl job offers in Germany
  > >in another e-mail.
  > >
  > >I don't know about Germany, I see that in Israel there is a growing number
  > >of jobs in perl - not enough but there are a few.
 >
 > Mainly in Germany perl skills are required as "add on" knowhow like
 > "shell scripting/perl/sed/awk skills desired" but not as main qualification.

That's the same situation in the US. It's only because of the size of
the English speaking market that it gets as many perl-as-primary-skill
job openings as it does.

  > >Non of them makes it to the jobs.perl.org. Some of them make onto the
  > >mailing list of the Israeli Perl Mongers or onto our web site.

Many (most?) openings in the US do not make it onto jobs.perl.org. I
can also attest that many local openings do not make it onto the Perl
Mongers lists in DC, Philly and NYC.

So, while there are problems posting offers for non-english speaking
markets, the core issues are not due to the all-english nature of
jobs.perl.org.

Z.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Gabor Szabo

External


Since: Jan 14, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:57 pm
Post subject: Re: International job market and jobs.perl.org [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Adam Turoff wrote:

 > That's the same situation in the US. It's only because of the size of
 > the English speaking market that it gets as many perl-as-primary-skill
 > job openings as it does.

If I understand you regarding the size of the market then the number of US
listings should be roughly the same as the total of Europe. Even
if for the sake of the exercise we take UK to be part of Europe
the number of postings in Europe is far lower than in the US.

Actually roughly 75% of the postings are from the US and 90% from
countries with English as the main language.


 > Many (most?) openings in the US do not make it onto jobs.perl.org. I
 > can also attest that many local openings do not make it onto the Perl
 > Mongers lists in DC, Philly and NYC.

This is probably true everywhere.
Still the number of postings grew significantly since the opening of the
site more than 3 years ago. This is due to the health of the market and
the hard work of the maintainers and others who directed job postings to
the site.

It would be nice if the rest of the world would catch up.
Even if I won't be able to read most of the posts...


thanks
Gabor<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Adam Turoff

External


Since: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 5



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:27 am
Post subject: Re: International job market and jobs.perl.org [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 03:57:22PM +0200, Gabor Szabo wrote:
 > On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Adam Turoff wrote:
  > > That's the same situation in the US. It's only because of the size of
  > > the English speaking market that it gets as many perl-as-primary-skill
  > > job openings as it does.
 >
 > If I understand you regarding the size of the market then the number of US
 > listings should be roughly the same as the total of Europe.

Yes, except for the fact that jobs.perl.org only has postings in English
at the moment. And as you note, the posts tend to be US-centric, for
whatever reason.

My point remains that the situation you're seeing in Israel (and
Germany) is typical -- a small number of jobs (in every market) where
Perl is a primary skill. There are a greater number of jobs where Perl
is an secondary skill, or simply a nice to have (i.e., someone who can
*read* all of this legacy Perl code while we convert it to Java/PHP/C#).

Expanding jobs.perl.org to include non-English openings will *help*, but
will not cause an increase the number of Perl positions in Israel or
elsewhere.

Z.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Gabor Szabo

External


Since: Jan 14, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:54 am
Post subject: Re: International job market and jobs.perl.org [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Adam Turoff wrote:

 > My point remains that the situation you're seeing in Israel (and
 > Germany) is typical -- a small number of jobs (in every market) where
 > Perl is a primary skill. There are a greater number of jobs where Perl
 > is an secondary skill, or simply a nice to have (i.e., someone who can
 > *read* all of this legacy Perl code while we convert it to Java/PHP/C#).
 >

Sure, we agree on that.


Gabor<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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